Clerk Stanley Grot Hosts First Citizens Advisory Meeting
Residents discuss roads, recreation, funds, current board, more during sometimes heated gathering
In keeping with his promise to improve communication with the citizens and the Shelby Township Board of Trustees, newly-appointed clerk Stanley Grot hosted the first Citizens Advisory Committee meeting April 23 at the community center.
Several residents and a handful of community officials, including Trustee Lisa Manzella, Treasurer Paul Viar, attorney Robert Huth, and 41-A District Court Judge Doug Shepherd, gathered for the two-hour meeting, which was, at times, rather heated as residents aired their concerns on several issues.
Grot started the meeting by bringing to the table several “provocative” questions, he said. “I think these kind of issues will affect our community, will affect our safety, will affect our way of life,” he said. He reminded residents that topics brought up in the session are not binding, but rather serve as a sounding board for further discussion.
He asked for the crowd’s opinion - by show of hands - whether or not the township should construct a new 41A District Court building and a new recreation facility. He also questioned a township-sponsored Memorial or Labor Day parade, and if the crowd backs a millage increase of about $10 to $20 a year supporting the Detroit Institute of Arts.
He also asked whether or not police and fire officials should live in the township, if the Fire Department should consider part-time employees, if property taxes are too high or too low, and other issues, including problems with sidewalks in the township.
Several residents brought up concerns about the township’s underfunded Police and Fire Pension Fund, especially when Grot mentioned that the township may face bankruptcy within a few years if the problem isn’t corrected.
Residents also raised concerns about the blight conditions that exist along Auburn Road in the township’s 48317 zip code. Two residents read from handwritten speeches, stating their concerns about the road conditions and the numerous shuttered businesses along the corridor. Viar said $300,000 was recently allocated to repave Auburn.
The rezoning of 24 Mile and Schoenherr roads from residential to commercial property proved to be another popular topic, with residents raising concerns about how the Board of Trustees and Supervisor Richard Stathakis handled the issue.
Grot and several residents expressed stated that they believed department heads from the DPW and Parks and Recreation should have attended the meeting. Grot stated that the cost to have the employees in attendance, at about $1,200, was too expensive for the township. Residents thought the employees should attend regardless. A Shelby Township police officer was there to answer questions about the department.
In addition, residents expressed concerns about the Board of Trustees meetings, stating the sessions are too long and that some feel intimidated to speak.
Although these issues and a few others were not fully resolved at the meeting, it’s Grot’s hope that the session and others serve as a starting point for residents. He added that he hopes a group of citizens representing all areas of the township will organize and take over the committee. Another Citizens Advisory Committee meeting is set for May 22 at Township Hall.
RantnRage
11:27 am on Thursday, April 26, 2012
If underfunded Police/Fire pension funds are a financial concern and may cause bankruptcy of your twp, then it would be benficial to know ...on an per individual basis... where the taxpayer's monies are being spent and publish those monthly payments. Someone should not make more in retirement than your average twp resident makes. "High overtime" during the last year of employment that exceeds the average of the previous five years should be audited for fraud & cheating and any collusion be treated as a felony since it is stealing from resident taxpayers.
Oh well... a bankruptcy would negate pension obligations in the Twp...to the cheats as well as the deserving .
Tax Advisor
3:31 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
Its amazing how this "non-elected appointed" township official who treats ALL residents as second class citizens gets so much ammunition. He is sarcastic, arrogant, and ignorant! I wonder if Grot would back any township employee that would have a run in with a resident. I know at my job, if I treated a taxpayer like he does, I would be terminated! NO GROT!!
Matt Guarnieri
5:05 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
Tax Advisor? We need to offer an undefined pension like ALL other union jobs now offer. Shelby Township pays retired officers MORE than working officers, we also pay about three times in retirement benefits to police and fire personal then we do to then when they actually DID work. How is this fair to taxpayers and to those that are actually doing the work? Should we cut working personal so we can keep paying for retirees? Should we cut equipment cost so retirees can keep getting their fat pension checks? Should struggling taxpayers pay MORE TAXES so retired police and fire can live high on the hog outside the area and contribute nothing to the welfare of the taxpayers that are stuck with their huge retirement cost?
Tax Advisor
3:48 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
I moved to Shelby Township over 30 years ago for a reason. I loved the area, the beauty, and I also expect a certain level of services that I pay for if I need or want it. Whether its police, ems, fire, trash collecting, dpw, library, parks and recreation, whatever. Leave my services out of your agenda, do not change our needs. I want all those things I pay for. The temporary clerk has lived in shelby for almost 10 years. Sir, dont come in and act like you can change the world, we wont let it happen!
Matt Guarnieri
5:06 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
It's either CUT the working police and fire personal thus lowering response to citizens or cut the pensions to the NON-WORKING Police and fire to save money..... You make the choice Tax Advisor.
Tax Advisor
4:13 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
Not really interested in the DIA, I already pay for the Detroit Zoo that I never visit, thanks though! A parade!? Forget it! All a parade is, is a chance for politicians to kiss babies and suck up to voters. Its really for the Veterans! Isnt there a state law that says police officers must live within 30 mile of the city they work in? For those really interested, the female police officer that was at the meeting was not there to answer questions......I called the police station and was told she was ordered to be there for potential crowd rowdies. And please quit scaring people thinking Shelby is going bankrupt, I have heard it since the mid 80's about how the township didnt fund the pension when I first moved here. Isnt Mr. Viar drawing a pension off taxpayers too? through the GM bailout? Just askin!
John Jamison
4:48 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
I want my police and fire. Don't you dare touch them. I moved into Shelby from Macomb Twp. so I could actually have a police department and fire services. If Grot and Stathakis really think the answer to our problems is to contract police services and go to a volunteer fire department then they are not creative and/or intelligent enough to hold their office.
Matt Guarnieri
4:59 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
So.... are you FOR Keeping the current level of service? Then you are FOR Police and Fire pension cuts. If you are FOR LESS service and paying retired personal more than working personal then you are AGAINST pension reform.
Leaving things as they are will cause CUTs in Police and Fire protection. We have 30 retired police and fire men making more than what we pay WORKING police and fire men. If we cut the pensions to match Detroit and other municipalities to a NON-DEFINED pension like all auto workers and all other civil employees get we can save our police and fire protection.
At least get it right when you post an argument!!!
Tax Advisor
11:40 am on Friday, April 27, 2012
Hey Matt, what is the current balances for the police and fire departments? What is the general fund balance? Who is really over spending? According to the supervisor, those fund balances are doing well. And if this is not the case, why in the hell did they just build a new police station? The officers I talk to do have lower pensions compared to the past officers. Is what you bring up fact or fiction about the pensions?
Matt Guarnieri
12:36 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Fact!!! We either use funds to keep working officers on the street or we use funds to finance the pensions of officers no longer contributing anything to Shelby Township.
Bob Leman pushed the new police building and saved funds to pay cash for it. It's what the money was put aside for, should we rob the building fund and NOT build the police building which is an asset for Shelby Twp just to fund out of line pensions for officers that currently contribute nothing to society or Shelby Township. It's all about how you want our tax dollars spent.... here in Shelby Twp to protect citizens or outside Shelby Twp to support pensions?
Tax Advisor
12:51 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
I noticed you got a little testy Matt. My statement is fact. I am FOR keeping the same level of service (if not better). And I was told today that the pensions are lower for the new hires. So, pension reform has begun, but keep in mind, Mr. Viar mentioned at the meeting the deficit was caused by previous boards not putting money in the fund and not caused by the employees. Did you not see the independent study of the police and fire departments? How do YOU MATT know leaving things as they are will cause cuts? What are the fund balances? I got those numbers, you should too! Your information on pensions is false. The police and fire men have taken pension cuts according to the supervisors office. You are comparing police to an autoworker? Do police get profit sharing checks? Do police get an employee discount on a new car purchase? Get your half truths correct Matt!!!!!
Tax Advisor
1:01 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Once again, your wrong Matt. The money came out of the Police budget, police money, police millage money. Its a line item in the police budget.
Leman may have pushed for it, but didnt 7 board members vote on the building? They didnt have to build it! And by building a police station, shouldnt they vacate the current space? But they arent, do you know why? The police budget pays money to the General Fund for the space they use. REALLY?!!! The police take money from there police fund and give it to the general fund for rent! That building has been bought and paid for. Talk about robbing funds, you make me laugh.
Matt Guarnieri
1:05 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
I'm looking to the future. I compare our officer benefits to Detroit officer benefits. Why can't we pay the same as Detroit in pensions per officer, why do the taxpayers have to be burdened withthe mistakes of past boards, lets wipe the slate clean and go to a none defined pension like larger municipalities have.
Also. Officers might not get a discount on vehicles but they definately have a get out of jail free card when they commit crimes most citizens would be locked up for.... you gotta admit that.
Matt Guarnieri
2:27 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Should't the electricity, IT, fuel, heating/cooling, cleaning, lawn maintenance, building maintenance for the police building come from the police budget? These things cost money and when we voted in a police millige I figured all that would be covered by it and not come out of the general budget, I and most taxpayers never counted on paying more for retired officers than for those actually working to protect us. The rent is fine when you take all expenses into consideration but I, as a taxpayer would not have voted for or would currently vote to revoke th millige if I had know most of my tax dollars would finanace pensions and not police on the beat.
Tax Advisor
5:28 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
You failed to mention the profit sharing check. And no Matt! I won't admit most officers have a get out of jail free card. Apparently you arent aware of the Shelby officer that was guilty of illegal lein usage that lost her job, the Shelby officer involved in a fatal accident a few years back that lost his job, or the Shelby officer that beat his wife and lost his job, or the Macomb deputies that have lost there jobs for various reasons in the last few years, NICE TRY!. ALL taxpayers are burdened with ALL mistakes, not only in Shelby Township, but Macomb County taxes, Lansing taxes and Washington D.C. taxes! Michigan businesses also are ranked as the 6th LOWEST in taxes, so why does Lansing keep preaching we need to lower business taxes and we give local business tax reductions. Is that fair to me as a tax payer? What benefits do the Shelby officers get that Detroit officers dont get?Thats why you have choices when you apply for jobs.....in your profession (whatever it is) if Company A offered you a better hourly rate of pay than Company B, dont tell me you wouldnt look at it. The new police station, LOL, apparently we didnt build it big enough for our staffing and now the police have 2 buildings to maintain. The General Fund cannot cover the bills without scamming from other budgets, THATS THE FACTS! And I assure you, most of your tax dollars are not financing pensions. You need to look at your tax bill my friend. And retired officers ARE NOT making more than those working!
Matt Guarnieri
10:13 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
All the situation you mention the officers DID NOT GO TO JAIL!! If a citizen commits the same crime as ALL of these officers they would be in jail.
Look at the officers we have, beating thier wives, killing off families in auto accidents, drunk driving. I don't see these things in Detroit. What do we have to do to get rid of the 10% bad cops in Shelby and get some decent cops from Detroit up here.
Take away the defined pension plan, and let these spoiled law breakers be treated like everyone else.
Tax Advisor
5:36 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Are you seriously comparing Shelby Township to Detroit?
Matt Guarnieri
10:14 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Yes, but Detroit has some better officers working for them.
Tax Advisor
5:39 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
To wipe the slate clean as you say, you pay off your current debts. thats how my parents raised me. Bankrupt? Wake up dude, that reliquishes power! Don't you watch meetings, thats what its all about..........P O W E R!
Watch the crisis in Detroit every day on the news.
Matt Guarnieri
10:15 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Yes, we need to relinquish power to rid taxpayers of the burden of golden parachute pensions. Let's do it.
Jeffery Berz
9:54 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Well Matt it looks like you don't have any more smart comebacks left for the Tax Advisor. Does this mean you finally ran out of your broken record dribble that you continually spout off?
My hat is off to the Tax Advisor for putting you in your place! Ha ha!
Jeffery Berz
12:06 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
That's because I was trying to communicate on your level Matt.
Matt Guarnieri
1:20 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Impossible Mr. Berz.... for you to reach my level your head would explode.
Jeffery Berz
12:08 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Take it up with the Tax Advisor you POS!
Jeffery Berz
12:10 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Matt, how do you know so much about Detroit officers?
You never cease to amaze me with your dribble.
Matt Guarnieri
1:18 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Yes, I READ THE PAPER!!.. try it sometime.
Thomas Delise
6:40 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Matt why don't practice what you preach?
As I recall in the the you have said you can't believe everything you read in the paper,now you treat it as the Bible.
You just get on here and just want to cliam you know about everything,but it doesn't amaze me seeing the politicians you back.Maybe you should lead the prayers at the next Board Meeting.Lord knows this Township needs help.If certian Board members didn't think they were doing any wrong they wouldn't feel the need for prayers.
Matt Guarnieri
10:53 am on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Everyone makes mistakes and to admit to them is honorable, to try and correct them is honorable, to personally attack the person and their family who points out the politician’s mistake is cowardly and bullying.
I speak plain language to politicians, always pointing out what I like about them and what troubles me; I cut them off when they go into "politician mode".
There are no legitimate excuses for making money while burdening taxpayers further, not if you are paid to represent the taxpayers first.
My opinion extends to all people; to attack the process instead of trying to correct the result tells me what kind of person you really are.
Whinny lost sheep attack the process and blame all burdens on someone else, always pointing BACK to them. Real men accept the result, think of solutions, get advice from those more educated about the situation and try to correct mistakes as they move forward.
What are you Mr. Delise…. A whiner or a winner?
Tax Advisor
1:41 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
The bad thing about these comment sections are: 1. an individuals credibility can go right out the window with false statements. 2. In this particular comment section, a group of people who protect us, serve us and may be called to save us is getting railroaded by someones agenda with false statements. 3. Personal attacks are not needed here. I dont know Matt, Thomas. or Jeffery so I can't and I wont make personal attacks. Lets stick to the storyline. Matt, since I had some time today, I asked a police officer from Shelby Township how many officers ever worked in Detroit as officers, his guess was at least 12 of the current 65 or so.
Tax Advisor
1:54 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Spoiled lawbreakers.....hmmm...ever been pulled over Matt and not gotten a ticket? Then again, if I were a Detroit officer I might profile and write you. Relax, everyone gets a break now and then. And yes, you sure do know a lot about Detroit Police, so 1 of several things is going on here. You either work for them and could never get outta that hole south of 8 Mile OR you used to work in Detroit police and quit or got injured and still not working in police work, OR you have a relative working there feeding you the info. I appreciate you tell politicians what you "like about them" and what "troubles you". How about call a spade a spade! I dont like the fact that the current clerk is on the payroll by the Attorney Generals office AND the payroll in Shelby Township. How does he do that! Have you asked him that? I think I've had my say on this enough......Unless more false misleading information is listed. Thank you very much!
Matt Guarnieri
5:07 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
I do not know of any police officers on a personal level... none. I READ, I investigate, I Google. You should try it sometime.
The clerk said he has resigned his position.... ask him. Honestly, I don't care, it's all about how good of a job they do for me and for taxpayers.
What about the past police Chief collecting a 100,000.00 a year pension with benefits at taxpayers’ expense while collecting 100,000 dollar plus salary to ineptly run the local police department for 10 years? No one seems to think this is an issue.
The person running for clerk against Mr. Grot collects over 70,000 dollars in tax funded pension and benefits for the rest of his and his spouses life but still wants the full salary of the clerk’s office.
We need to cut double dipping all together, if you are retired and choose to do another job there should be some kind of refund to taxpayers.
Tax Advisor
1:58 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
YOU KNOW WHO, re-read Tax advisor 1:41 Number 1
Jeffery Berz
6:46 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Former Police Chief Robert Leman was railroaded for blowing the whistle on the dirty supervisor. Bob Leman is not a patsy who will go along with a cover up because the supervisor tells him to. I applaud Bob Leman for being a honest and stand up guy.
Former Chief Leman did the right thing and was made to pay for it by losing his job. This is how Stathakis and his vultures operate. If you don't like the rules of Ricks game then you're OUT! More dirty politics.
If you have never met Bob Leman you should make an effort to do so. He's a really nice guy and he'll make a wonderful supervisor for Shelby Township.
Matt Guarnieri
9:34 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Lisa-Manzella-Is-Corrupt.com has all the evidence you need and if you GOOGLE Robert Leman on SCRIBD.COM to find the reports from his employers on his inept leadership skills.
Jeffery Berz
10:44 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Garbage from Garbage
Matt Guarnieri
4:32 am on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Well, the truth is the truth, no twisting or the words here. Leman and Manzella are truly unfit to serve taxpayers in Shelby Township in any capacity.
Tax Advisor
1:19 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Matt, Matt, Matt.....former chief does not get a pension from Shelby Township at all! Again, your wrong. Im starting to sound like a broken record with you. Wrong, wrong, wrong. C'mon man, get your "facts" at least near right. And "you don't care" if Grot resigned his position from the Atty Gen. office, which we all pay his salary and benefits, but YOU DO think its wrong for a retired person to run for that position and be able to as you call it double dip. Im starting to agree with some of the others as far as what you comment on.
Matt Guarnieri
3:28 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
I did not say from Shelby.... he receives a pension from Warren and received a paycheck from Shelby, but I, as a citizen feel and continue to believe Mr. Leman was never leadership material, he is a follower, not an initiator. Even when he handed in his signatures for candidacy most were collected by the owner of the previous towing contractor. Who do you think will lead the township if Mr. Leman was elected... The man who puts him there, his boss, John Nightingale.
Jeffery Berz
9:35 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Matt seems to think he can sway the way people think if he tells enough lies. The problem is that Matt has lied so much that he now believes his own crap.
Like I said before you will not find a more upstanding and honest man than Bob Leman. He will restore honesty and faith in Shelby Township government.
Tax Advisor
1:29 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
So what tremendous things has the supervisor and appointed clerk done for Matt to turn him so against the opponents running against them. See, I dont like using the names because I really dont care for any of them. But if you want me to brainwash you Matt by printing the names I can. Its about name recognition, that all. If you read the newspapers, did you read today about the Social Security deficit and when its gonna be broke? How should we fix that Matt. Cut off everyone born after Jan. 1, 2000 because its gonna be broke now by 2033. Or maybe anyone drawing a social security check that works must forfeit the benefit? Isnt that double dipping? And you never answered if a police officer ever gave you a break on a ticket. I will add I really dont care about who you like and dont like either, so save it!
Matt Guarnieri
3:38 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
No one has done anything for me personally..... I don't want a favor, I want what is best for the taxpayers.... lower taxes, and better services. i am willing to see a few upset vendors, employees and special interest to do this but I am not willing to run for office. Things have been really good for Shelby taxpayers the past three years, no unnecessary tax hikes, people allowed to see where every penny is spent, inept employees and unscrupulous vendors replaced, special interest upset..... Very good three years for tax payers.
Oh... No, never got a break on a ticket from an officer, never asked, I just hire an attorney, no matter what, for everything.
On social security, just cut off those that receive other pensions. Same with Obama care, no exclusions, everyone pays but if you want to get different medical coverage you pay twice stop giving special interest exclusions either everyone pays or no one pays.
Jeffery Berz
9:29 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
I wouldn't call it a break on a ticket Matt has gotten in the past it's more like getting off on a technicality. I won't mention the charges here as they make me sick.
Matt is a bottom feeder and nothing more.
Matt Guarnieri
7:57 am on Monday, April 30, 2012
Mr. Berz, I wish I knew what technicality you speak of. I am not the type to weasel out of anything, especially a false accusation. I'm more the type to take severe steps to prove his innocence and then shove the proof in the persons face.
The weasel blames the process of getting caught and others for pointing out their bad behavior. The honorable man proves his innocence 100% and then never attacks the process just the ineptness of others. If people had done their job properly I would have never been accused. If people had done their jobs properly Mr. Barra and Mrs. Manzella would not be in jail today and Mr. Leman would have been fired, not just let go by non-renewal of a contract. All I ask is for honest people to be in charge... not me, not anyone I would endorse..... But for goodness sake, let's stop making excuses and letting people and politicians off for dishonest and inept behavior.
Matt Guarnieri
7:59 am on Monday, April 30, 2012
Should read "Be in Jail" Not "not be in jail"
Tax Advisor
1:33 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
You can also ask current employees about some of the inept board members, both the part time and full time. They see it every day! I have asked some that trust me and they have been quite frank about it.
Matt Guarnieri
3:42 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Of course people who have to cut the waste from their departments and pensions will be angry. I think of the Jamie Bara deposition where he admitted attending a few Tiger Baseball while he was signed in as working for Shelby Township, he admitted it was wrong but I bet he was mad he was caught..... of course employees who have been getting away with this behavior for years past are angry at the people who put a stop to it.
Tax Advisor
1:38 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
I am so sick and tired of scare tactics with all politicians.
Marina Cracchiolo
2:28 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Please do not post on Patch.com using an alias. Any, also several comments were deleted because they were personal attacks and off the subject. Thanks for following Patch.
Jeffery Berz
11:59 am on Monday, April 30, 2012
Matt, Why have you taken it upon yourself to single out people and attempt to crucify them. This is especially bad when you only tell half of the story.
Jamie Barra went to his boss Supervisor Stathakis and told him about the bribe. Stathakis told him to donate some and he took $100 to supposedly donate himself. When all of this comes out in the news Stathakis lies through his teeth and refuses a polygraph test. Who's the cheat, thief and liar now?
Stathakis has lost any faith that people ever had in him and he will never regain it.
Matt Guarnieri
1:29 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
I can not prove any of Barra's story accept he admitted to taking a bribe, admitted to attending sporting events and playing hookie from his job while on the clock for Shelby Township, admitted to being offered a bribe from a second developer. People don't just offer up bribes and cash unless they get signals you're asking for a bribe.... think about it. Mr. Barra contacted the appraiser directly for the property owner who gave him a cash gift. Mr. Barra wrote out the check for this property owner and handed it into the Treasurer's office himself. I won't even go into the appraisal and how wrong that was for taxpayers.
Mr. Barra Took a bribe.... how he disposed of it .... He did favors for this money.... what favor could Mr. Stathakis do for Mr. Barra that Mr. Barra would pay him 100.00 for? Look at the known facts in the report, not jumping to any conclusion.... just the known and admitted facts of the police report. You are jumping to conclusion based on assumptions.... I came to conclusion based on statements given and facts collected. There is real corruption in Shelby Twp. But it's the employees and trustee that broke the ethical standards intrusted to them.... or at least all I can prove at this point. And if these two face no real punishment for their actions how can I expect any justice if I do uncover other corruption. To defend Barra is to say " well, some corruption is acceptable, others is not". What standard is that?
Jeffery Berz
1:40 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
The fact remains that Stathakis wouldn't take a polygraph test.
Sounds like someone with something to hide to me.
Jeffery Berz
1:45 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Matt are you stoned or drunk? You sure seem to be screwing up your rants lately.
In jail? Out of jail? Should be in jail? You sound like you're messed up. Just do me a favor and stay off of the roads in that condition or one of those cops is going to get you and not give you a break.
Matt Guarnieri
1:49 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Having been someone accused myself and passing a polygraph and then being subjected to some of your own post Mr. Berz, I would think passing a polygraph test to prove your innocence means nothing to you.
Does passing a polygraph have meaning to you in SOME situations but not ALL. Again, two sets of ethics, one for you friends and a totally different standard for others. At least I an consistant and honest Mr. Berz.
Matt Guarnieri
1:51 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
I'm on my phone Mr. Berz.... and I have some fairly dammaged hands to be texting with...... Still not two faced like others. I stick to my ethics and standards.... friends or enemies.... all the same.
Jeffery Berz
2:48 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Be careful or you'll go blind.
Also don't forget to wash you hands! :-)
Jeffery Berz
2:49 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Matt I guess you have your standards and I have mine. That's what makes the world go around.
Thomas Delise
6:45 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Well you know he can't all be there if he thinks $tathakis is honest !!!
Matt Guarnieri
9:15 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Mr. Delise, I trust no one, but we need to be consistent, either all unethical behavior is punishable by firing or none of it is. We need to begin wherever the most prevalent and provable unethical behavior exist. By allowing some select employees or special trustees to get away with unethical behavior you are saying it's fine to act unethically with taxpayers funds and responsibility unless you have a personal stake in the circumstance. This is the beginning of “special interest politics”.
Today, I feel, that by special interest ignoring some unethical behavior that is written and reported and just concentrating on what I cannot prove you are going to allow ALL unethical behavior to be acceptable unless it only harms you, the special interest.
Now if by chance Flynn, Viar or Stathakis do happen to commit a provable unethical action I have to treat it the same as the current provable unethical behavior by a different trustee and former clerk. It’s the only way I can justifiably say I am not “special interest” reporting or commenting.
Jeffery Berz
9:23 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
I AGREE WITH MATT!
Stathakis needs to be fired! The sooner the better.
Jeffery Berz
10:52 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
That's just the way he operates Tom. Twisting what others say to make them look bad. Fortunately most people know not to believe what Matt says.
Matt Guarnieri
12:38 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
There is nothing to twist Mr. Berz. I am showing the other side of what you are claiming. It's called "debating the facts". If what you say were facts and provable, beyond a doubt, I would be quiet. What you do is pick and choose what you want to believe and summarily put real facts off as meaningless. You live in a fantasy land where the truth is meaningless. "You can't handle the truth" as they say, it would make your mind explode so you personally attack the person saying the truth to you.
Haven't you personally attacked me here? Dismissed what I say instead of coming up with facts? These are the tools a puppet, a marionette if you choose, someone who attacks the person spewing facts instead of debating. As soon as you bring up anything personally about me I know I am winning. Just like the “dirty truck” talk of Mrs. Manzella, instead of saying, the facts are wrong, you would just like to discredit the person showing the world the truth and thus try to cover up the truth. I’m not going anywhere and I hope the corrupt and inept people keep it up or even win an election…. I mean, my signs and websites have a 10 year life span and contract, what good would they be if there is no one to use them for?
The harder you attack, the more I know I’m doing the right thing. The more power you give me. As long as you say worse personal things about others than I, I cannot be blocked or quieted.
Jeffery Berz
3:11 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
I guess the same can be said for you Matt. Just read what you have written then look in the mirror.
As for your last comment to Tom Delise what the hell are you talking about? &%#@(&
Norman Dziadzio
4:58 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
I have for the last two(2) Agendas to be posted on the Shelby Township site and have been unable to get the Agendas on line.
What is going on?
Jeffery Berz
11:29 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
Forgive me Mr. Dziadzio for saying this and I'm not personally attacking you but I was told that you were a large part of why citizens speaking time was reduced from 10 minutes to 5 minutes. You used to get up there and give long drawn out speeches and commentaries.
This information came from someone close to a current board member.
MP Smith
12:41 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Norman, you know what I think? I think its deliberate. Less people showing up means Grott can get another 'that-a-boy' for an early ending meeting. He bragged about it 2 weeks ago you know.
Cheryl Arft
10:33 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Norm,
Maybe you should ask the new Deputy....that's his job, and you're paying a lot of money for him. Did you call Stan about it? What was his response?
Matt Guarnieri
1:33 am on Sunday, May 6, 2012
Mr. Dziadzio, maybe I can help. The last Agenda downloads at 33 MB of information, this would take a little time with a slower internet connection. I am able to reduce the size myself to under 10MB to save them. I usually download them the day they are available.... if you have an issue, ask Marina (the editor here at Patch) to contact me. I can upload a reduced pdf to the Patch or send it to you. I don't think this is a Clerk issue, I think it's a computer issue on your end since I seem to be able to download, even to my smart phone, without an problem.
Thomas Delise
12:10 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
Show me the tears.
I pay taxes & I do not appreciate intentionally ignored !
So I told him what I thought.No crying towel needed here.