I meant decision.

please go ... do us all a favor!

Please move. I sent you the name of an attorney that deals with issues like Shelby North. Obviously you didn't call. Maybe you should send a post card, or even better hand deliver it.

To Mike Lowrey aka Truthful Enquirer Thousands of dollars would need to be spent on attorney fees that would produce nothing.You know the way these builderers work,they never have any money in thier business for the sake of things like this.Then they just open under another business name.So if you're willing to flip the bill to get nothing be my guest and show me how it works.
Been there done that!

well said Matt !

To bill You keep braging you are a 45 year residents and all you can say is "what Matt said" You have no opinion of your own.we are all paying taxes here in Shelby Twp.,it doesn't make what you say Gospel just because you are " resident for 45 years".

Matt, there's no rational reason to have dialogue with these people, especially Mr. Berz. Save yourself from their incessant whining and and fulminating hatred because they can't have what they want, something, anything from government. It's just pick-pocketing the taxpayer like the Nightingales' have. I can't wait to hear the speeches from the newly acclaimed candidate and "politicioner" Nick, "I'm not done yet" Nightingale.

In 2000 the township went to Warren to recruit a Police Chief and now you are saying he is better for Shelby. Why can't the township go outside to get a towing contractor?
Aren't the taxes Cass Collision pays just as valuable as Nightingales Service? Why is one taxpayer better than any others? This is self-serving behavior.
Nightingales never showed up at a meeting until their monopoly was threatened. Robert Leman didn't know where Shelby Township was before 2000 when he was hired from Warren and only decided to run for supervisor AFTER he was fired. I bet if his contract had been renewed he would be sitting at his desk today, does none of this sound like self-serving to you? If Leman had quit and ran,... maybe..... If Nightingale had shown any interest in the township before his own business was threatened, maybe I could say they are not self-serving but today.... the facts are the facts and these people are self-serving and have NO interest in helping anyone but themselves to taxpayer’s money. Think about this and get back to me.
Mr. Stathakis came to meetings when he was fully employed and complained about the potential taxing of citizens without a vote. He built a police station without raising taxes, he will not build a court building if it will cost taxpayers or produce debt. This is serving the taxpayers.

Showing up at the meetings is not the only way to show an interest in the Township. As I have seen and heard, Mr. Nightingale and his family have shown plenty of interest in this Township for many years in many other ways. They give of themselves by volunteering at many charity events, they donate to these many charities, and all without public recognition. In addition, I have heard many people share information about the numerous times that the business in question have helped those regardless of their ability to pay. As for Mr. Leman, I can only imagine that if his contract had been renewed, he would have been prohibited for running for the office he is currently seeking. I commend him for stepping up to serve this community and when the Board chose not to extend his service, instead of disappearing into the woodwork, he took an opportunity to step up again and run for an office that will allow him to continue to serve this community. As for Mr. Stathakis, when did his interest in the meetings begin? Exactly how long before he announced his candidacy for Supervisor did he begin to attend meetings? And he DID NOT build a police station, he assisted in arranging for it to be built. And yes, the taxes of Cass Collision is just as valuable, the problem there is that vehicles towed due to a collision should not be taken to a collision shop for storage. It gives them an unfair advantage for the business, as an insurance company would save on the second tow by them doing the work.

Val, please enlighten me what charities Nightingales Towing has assisted in... Lions?, Optimist? Kiwanis? Anything?
If Cass Collision has an advantage then Nightingale's had the same advantage for repairing vehicles for over 50 years and no one complained then.... now that a different business gets the advantage suddenly it's unfair to John Nightingale..... oh my.
Mr. Nightingale has no one to blame but himself, if he didn't open the door for the contract to go someplace else, nothing would have changed. Some people will always blame the other guy for things they got away with for years... How do you think Mr. Nightingale knows there may be an advantage to Cass Collision? Because he had the same advantage before.
Why am I the only one who see this... Please, Val.... think about this.

Well Matt, I guess you have never seen Mr. Nightingale at the Relay for Life event...year after year (there is your anything). Nightingales Towing did not have the same advantage...they are not a collision shop and they do absolutely no body work at all. And how does he know that they may have an advantage, well considering he has over 40 years experience in the field, it must be common knowledge to him how the insurance company process works...as a matter of fact, if you go back and check, I would think that you would find that a Board member made this exact same question about another company that would be storing vehicles at a collision repair shop when the contract bid came up to begin with. I may be wrong, but it does sound familiar. I see once again, you opted to not answer any of my questions, just threw a few more with inaccurate information out there. I am not the only one that sees THIS......Please Matt..... think about that.

I didn't see any question marks in your post Ms. Alspaugh.... What questions do you need answered?
But please tell me how "Relay For Life" benefits Shelby Township like the Optimist, Lions, or Rotary do? Because I believe Relay for Life is a national based charity that helps individuals based on need, not on location. I want candidates that specifically benefit Shelby Township residents. I say this because you said they do things that benefit Shelby Residents. You brought this up so I assume you must know of some….” Many” in fact, so enlighten us, Ms. Alspaugh.
Cass Collision doesn't do brake jobs or engine work so they have to refer it to someone. I suspect Nightingale's did the same with collision work. The advantage is similar and not any better than whoever gets the towing contract. I also suspect Nightingale's got some sort of "compensation" for these referrals but doubt they will admit it. I do know that this is the way most towing companies work so it doesn’t bother me. I just want the contractors to bill what they say they will
I see you choose to answer my questions with wrong answers about other off topic things. Where is the "tax breaks for immigrants"? Where are the "charitable contributions for Shelby Township"? You say they exist but then change the subject once I ask for specifics. You said you possess knowledge of these things but have not provided any answers.... How can you just throw out certainties like this and then have no answers, Ms. Alspaugh?

As for Mr. Stathakis, when did his interest in the meetings begin? Exactly how long before he announced his candidacy for Supervisor did he begin to attend meetings? There's two...and "Relay For Life" benefits Shelby Township residents who have been stricken with a sometimes unrelenting illness, helps others get testing for early detection, bettering their chances for a full recovery, helps those that have lost loved ones and provides advice for the possible prevention for the disease. Yes, they are a national organization, but they provide services based on need...regardless of location and the monies raised here keep services here for the community. You didn't ask for all of the charities they have donated too or are members off..you said give me anything and I did just that. The reason that I chose this very one is that it could not be seen as "hearsay" like some of the others I have heard of, this is one that I have personally witnessed. My answer was not wrong, off topic...and they were indeed answers. Once again Matt, you are categorizing me wrong, when you ask me for specifics, I provide them...you on the other hand..tossing stuff out there and when are asked to prove it...you claim that you are waiting for just the right opportunity.

I guess I will repeat myself for Val.
Mr. Stathakis began attending and speaking at meetings after the issue of putting taxpayers into debt to build unnecessary buildings became the topic (justice center). Mr. Stathakis spoke up at meetings against excessive spending, and then decided to run for supervisor. The excessive spending affected all taxpayers, not just Mr. Stathakis. Mr. Stathakis said he would hire consultants who would know more than us to publicly advise the board on situations and the public will see the board make decisions based on expert advice and needs, not based on wants of a few board members.
Again, the only charity you speak of with regard to Nightingales after I asked for more of the “many charities” you keep speaking of is “relay for life” (Karmanos)a charity that I cannot find one citizen in Shelby Township listed as helped specifically because they are so vague a charity. A charity that has sued over 100 other charities for using “for life” in their slogans. A charity that just had a huge falling out because they give millions in raised money to fund abortion clinics. This may sound like a great charity in concept… walk to help cancer survivors but it is a shell charity that spends very little to directly help individuals? The bulk of funds raised are for promotion and legal fees.

Val, why wait on me for documentation, FOIA what you need. Google the charities, don’t listen to what I have to say but don’t tell me to provide you with the proof you desire, I have told you facts and you come back with prove it. When I ask you to prove “many charities” and “tax breaks for immigrants that would affect Shelby Township” you never answer either accusation. You claim to “want to learn” as I do. Well, look stuff up and read, as I do. I am giving you the leads to go to.
Did you know I never would have found out about the corrupt activities of a trustee or had the ammunition to begin a web site to point these activities out to others if it had not been for Nick Nightingale saying “read the report” at a township board meeting…. I looked it up and read it.
Did you know I never would have known about any of the lawsuits filed while Leman was police chief or the sexual discrimination suit against Leman if it hadn’t been for a retired cop named Ken Underwood mentioning or telling me to look at the records. I find these things, lawsuits, police reports and I make them available to others and inform others. If you still choose to “not learn” I won’t say remain ignorant since you seem to take that as an insult, you should not attack me, go out and find the information yourself that supports what you believe and then respond.

Matt, to begin with, the things that I have told you to prove that are most interesting are the ones that cannot be FOIA'd....for instance your allegations that people have followed you out of meetings screaming, yelling and threatening you which you have claimed to have recorded. Next, the stuff that I can FOIA myself, what I am truly trying to see is if you actually did as you say you did. You seem to base a lot of your assumptions on only half of the information. And considering you asked for just anything, like I said I gave you what I was totally sure of...with a bit more checking, I have found that Mr. Nightingale is a regular contributor to both the Kiwanis and LIons Club..so there is two more. As for "tax breaks for immigrants"...i believe my statement was that as a "might"..I do know that the US has tax treaties with many countries, and due to those treaties certain foreign nationals receive incentives in the way of reduced taxes on their incomes. If that funnels down to the County of Township level, who knows...probably why I said "might". As for waiting on you? Well, it isn't that I am waiting...it is that I am proving that you will spout off at the mouth about certain things, and when asked to put your money where your mouth is and turn your speakings from "allegations", "assumptions", or "opinions" into facts with actual proof to back it up...you will fall short or refuse.

Val, like I said the recording is FOIA able along with the complaint. Try the township, the police department, the sheriffs office and the state attorney general, just like when I collect information, when I am harassed I leave no stone unturned.
I donate to the Lions, Kiwanis, Turning Point, CARE, The War of Terror Memorial and a vast many others by patronizing their fund raisers and giving a little cash, this does not make me a model Shelby Citizen to run for trustee. I started and ran a successful business when I was 21 years old, my father did not give me work or a dime. I lied to get a job when I was 12 to help support my family and have the social security tax statements to prove it, although I actually began working outside the home at 10 years old.
Being born with a silver spoon in your mouth as Nightingale was, being given the best opportunity at education, livelihood and stable financing your entire life and then pitching a few bucks into a collection tin is hardly qualifications for representative of the people who did not have those advantages.
And to Mr. Campbell, we live in a democracy, the majority rule, if all the other candidates when election ask if they will promise to change the ordinance back to unanimous. I'm willing to bet no one will promise this.
Val, please ask who you support to put their goals and intentions in writing as Mr. Stathakis did when he ran, not generalized like more transparency, no corruption, what exactly will they do?

In response to; "Being born with a silver spoon in your mouth as Nightingale was, being given the best opportunity at education, livelihood and stable financing your entire life and then pitching a few bucks into a collection tin is hardly qualifications for representative of the people who did not have those advantages." ~ Once again, all readers please be aware, the above statement is not factual...it is mere opinion and assumption. Let me tell you this...if Mr. Nightingale or any of his children for that matter, where born with "silver spoons" in their mouths...I am more than sure that they wouldn't be showing up to work 12 hour days at a very hard and quite often dangerous job. And "stable financing" all of their lives...if this were true, what would it matter to them if they lost the contract? What would it matter if the business closed it doors? The fact is, this family works hard every day for every penny they have. Mr. & Mrs. Nightingale raised ten children in this community, and each and every one of them works for a living...none of them seem to live "high on the hog" so to speak. And as for "the best opportunity" at education, did any of the children attend private schools? Nope...each and every one of them attended public schools....so they had the exact same as any other Shelby Twp. kid! And I will bet my bottom dollar that any that have chosen to go to college hasn't gotten a "free ride" for that either..working their way through! Matt's bitterness is showing!

Valarie,... facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored .....
The Nightingales' have turned into a bunch of cry bobbies—> not only will the “kid” not get my vote... I have since taken my business elsewhere.

resident of Shelby > 45 years

Bill...the problem with your friends posts is that they are not full of facts. They are laced with opinions, assumptions, and skewed viewpoints. The only thing that needs to be ignored is that constant barrage of propaganda. Oh, and the name calling, seriously...you claim a resident for 45 years, and your posts show a severe lack of maturity that I would think 45+ years would (should) produce. If you want to have a serious, adult conversation about the issues (all of them, not just the Nightingales), feel free. But this unnecessary, demeaning, demoralizing, and discriminatory rhetoric will in the future be ignored!

Hey John, if you pay attention the board that is so against transperency and never listens to residents does allow residents to voice their opinons and help set priorites.

http://shelby-utica.patch.com/articles/video-shelby-residents-help-board-set-2012-priorities#video-8262806

And they do so without their hand out for campaign contributions.

You have got to be kidding here right Jim? Please reread the story, it clearly states; "Residents were asked to vote on a more than a dozen priorities that were determined by trustees and the heads of city departments."....So the choices of these residents was limited to those that the Board and department heads had agreed would be the priorities. Do you think for one minute that any resident, or group of residents that attended would have had an opportunity to add a priority to the list and then vote? I don't think so! And you should check the campaign financials for these political candidates.....Stathakis was taking contributions throughout this time period. And due to the lack of transparency of the current Board, you as a citizen will never know if or how the choices of priorities were influenced. And since the subject has come up, I wonder if anyone commenting here understands or even reviews the campaign funds of our elected officials?

In addition, since resolving the court issue was deemed most important by the residents of this community...exactly how much time has been spent on that? Is the Township any closer to resolving the issue than they were when the vote was cast?

Jim H., thanks for posting this video. HAHA!!! Stickers?!? Really? Was there a run on crayons? And all the stickers were the same color. All it would take is two-to-three insiders to stick all of their stickers on a single priority and that would be the top priority for 2012. WHAT A JOKE!!!

It seems the priorities for 2012 are the same as 2011 which were the same for 2010. Which means the board was unsuccessful in accomplishing the goals?

how many years was Soccer City on the list? The Court issue? Police Department?

Shouldn't "new revenue" be a given? Does it really need to be "prioritized"? This is just political pandering.

Out with the old. In with the new.

If you watch the video, one person sticks two stickers on the same priority!

Sorry Mr. Heard, this crowd is not interested in the truth, They trash talk people who are honest and honor self entitled thieves and crooks.

Yes, Mr. Berz,,,, but you are not allowed by law to vote for Mr. Leman so what does it matter who you support.......lol.

And all his Union buddies....

At least you won't have to drive as far to go to the court house.

I support Bob Leman for Shelby Township Supervisor.
In regard to the reply to my last post the mixed up person is right. I cannot vote but I will do everything I can to help Bob Lemans campaign.
Where I live and what I do seems to be of real interest to Matt G. I'm honored to know that he cares. Thank you Matt.

Matt , I only joined the patch “to respond to many of your attackers “

I find the constant barrage you are taking from the so called “save Shelby Group” despicable and wish to offer some support to you ...
keep up the good work!

Bill
resident of Shelby > 45 years

Because I ask good question Michele. What are the candidate’s platforms, will they keep the court no matter the cost to taxpayers? Why, I have shown that adding probation could make neighborhoods and neighborhood children less safe. (Using Mt. Clemens, where probation is now, as an example). Will the candidates vote to reverse the appointment ordinance to unanimous, I doubt it. Will the candidates reinstate Nightingale’s Towing as the no bid, unchecked towing contractor forever? Will they pass an ordinance stating Nightingales is the official township towing contractor for eternity? This seems to be Nick Nightingale’s platform so far.
I want some promises and goals... I want tough negotiating with employee’s contracts concerning legacy cost. I want the court gone. I want outside consultation on all township business, by experts in the field. I don't want "entitlement" or "history" to be the main consideration when it comes to saving taxpayers money. I don't want anything done the same because "it's how it's always been done and it's been fine".
I want what’s best for ALL taxpayers equally, no favoritism. Maybe you don’t agree with everything the current board is doing but the candidates running have nothing to say except they “don’t like” what’s going on now…. Well, what exactly will they fix? Why am I not allowed to ask this and why does no one have an answer?
Aren't you a little curious what they stand for?

Back at you Michael

Bill
resident of Shelby > 45 years

Matt, your sense of humor is about as bad as your debating skills. I will meet you any where anytime and debate any subjuct you would like to debate. Anyone can hide behind a key board and spew out their thoughts and opions but to actually have a face to face debate and provide a base to those opinions is a different story.

You state that you have shown us things. I have yet to see any thing concrete that would back up any of your statements. You say you ask good questions. You do, but questions that concern you not the Twp. Unless you polled the Twp you cannot honestly say that you know what is best for the Twp.... Here is a question for you. There are four empty lots that the board has passed approval to have the land developed. My question is, why have'nt any of the lots had the ground broken for development?????????

Bill,
You state that you joined to offer some support to Matt. Then offer support, name calling is really not support and I think Matt would agree with that. I know Matt has done same name calling and has been off more then a few times on his judgement of people. However, at least Matt discusses his opinions on Shelby and the board. Please be a Man and discuss your thoughts on these issues. You state that you have been a resident of Shelby for over 45 years which makes you 45 years or older. Please act like an adult instead of a teenager.......

I appreciate Mr. Webber's help but he needs to be warned these people believe in name calling and harassing as a way of life. They will find something, anything to complain about you as children do.

Mr. Campbell? Excuse my attempt at humor in a typo situation..... anyway....rather than attack me, could you attack the questions I pose?

Yes, this is because in the comment section of the Flynn story people resorted to name calling earlier. I think as long as I am the focus of accusations and name calling it's not a problem for the editor. But I'm tougher skinned I can take it.

Please tell others that the police building was built with existing funds and no borrowed funds. Mr. Stathakis stated he would not BORROW funds for a building without a vote of the people.
Still doesn't void the fact that Mr. Leman doubled the police budget in 8 years from around 7 million to over 15 million in tax money. Mr. Lemans spending did slow down once Mr. Stathakis was voted into office.
Maybe you should check your facts Mr. Smith.... I have checked mine.

I am really getting tired of hearing about how the police budget doubled in over eight years. Hell's bells, the cost of everything has doubled...the price of gasoline alone could account for a great deal of the rising budget. But I guess Mr. Leman could have said...."nope, not patrolling the streets tonight, can't overspend on fuel!!", or maybe he could have said..."nope, not going out on that call to check to see if a predator is outside that lady's house, if he breaks down the door and hurts her or her kids we will go, need to stay within the budget and it is too close to shift change"! You don't check all the "facts" Matt, just the ones that if written or spoken the right way prey on the emotions of citizens and get them to believe as you would like them to believe...fallacies, all of them! Just like when they say things like.."the crime rate is triple (not accurate, just for arguments sake) what it is in small town Idaho...therefore small town Idaho is safer"...a fallacy! Oh and Matt, "FOIA able" is not a word!

Val, the police budget specifically doubles the first 8 years Leman was police Chief,,, BEFORE the current leadership slowed the spending. I am not just accusing Leman of poor fiscal responsibility but the previous board members that went along with this.

Ms. Alspaugh, The word "able" not attached to a word in itself is a word which means "susceptible to action or treatment". Typically you hyphenate but that is not required or necessary for proper use.

Mr Smith. I have documented proof the court cost the Shelby Township taxpayers over 80,000.00 (dollars) NET from the general fund last year. Do you have any idea how much money 80 thousand dollars is? We could have done more sidewalks, more recreation... a lot. Please get your facts straight before you spew lies and misinformation on print.

Jeffery...
you are exactly the problem
please get a life !

I have been called worse to my face (well from behind in a whisper) By Mrs. Manzella a supposedly respectable person at the last meeting I attended.

Mr Berz..... I worry you have some kind of female fantasy going on about me, are you OK?

I don't know anything. I read the towing reports, I looked at budgets, I pay attention.

You read the "skewed" towing report!

Matt <there is nothing that can be done at this point.I am not only worried about myself,if I was I would have been gone a long time ago.
If you need an explaintion what happened here opened my eyes and I started paying attention to all the other things the majority of this board has done against the majority of the residents wants.I have evry right to speak just as you do so worry about yourself and you will see all the you're spewing.
Oh yeah you want to talk trains,I suggest you talk to William ( Bill ) Scalibrino.

Matt ,

the voters understand... keep up the good work answering these clowns that are constantly attacking you...

Bill
resident of Shelby > 45 years

To bill we are the Voters too!

Mr. Delise, you are a loud minority that is emotionally charged and irrational. You think an issue that only concerns you should concern everyone equally. I believe the issues that concern the majority of taxpayer in Shelby Township should concern you more than yourself alone. It's like you worry about YOUR seat on a train while I worry about the whole train and track.

Mr. Campbell, I compare us to Washington Twp. to the North, Macomb Twp. to the East and Rochester to the West. Sterling Heights to the South is not the only direction I look. I compare all directions. Cass Collision pays property taxes, I believe both trustees you mention also pay property taxes.
I am sure Cass Collision serves people in other communities that need repair, I am sure several other residents in Shelby work part time or have interest not in Shelby Township. At one point I moved my business and employees to Auburn Hills, MI. and rented space, the space I rented in Shelby still exist so I think the taxes the landowner pays still exist.
I believe Marina is an excellent writer, far better than I. Female, male and writers of different ages have different styles. I tend to be able to recognize those subtleties. I don't care if people use pseudonyms to write. I just want the writing to be about politics, politicians and issues that affect the majority of citizens and taxpayers without the name calling. You, Mr. Campbell are a name caller and reflect the true nature of what you accuse me of. I never insinuated any one writing style was superior to another.
I’m not a writer, I’m not a politician, I’m a father and taxpayer, nothing more.

The court cost Shelby Township taxpayers 80,000.00 more to operate than it brought in last year.... simple fact.... an 80,000 dollars NET loss in revenue from the general fund..... tell you what.... prove me to be 100% wrong and I will not comment for a month. If you can't, then you stop commenting for a month.

Kermit ,

you kill me.... a kid in an adult conversation ? please
I have been reading your prior posts ... you sound just like that Nightingale boy

Bill
resident of Shelby > 45 years

The previous supervisor and Lisa Manzella wanted to raid the police fund surplus and "loan" it to the court to pay their part of the building down payment.

The Nightingale's overcharged on 36% of the bills they handed into the township. The poll you speak of had 27 "individual" responses, so 85% of 27 is? (give them 23) This is how many people support The Nightingales in Shelby Township. Close to how many showed support at the board meetings. I hope more people will actually vote in an election.
I think if I went door to door with the Weipert report and let people decide after reading this, we will see if Mr. Nightingale gets many votes. There will be an advertised web site to view all the Nightingales antics. The voters get to view read and decide for themselves, it won't be me making things up like Nightingale's cancelled D.A.R.E., things of this nature that Nightingale's used in the recall.

Once again Matt, your information is inaccurate. The Weipert Report claims that there were overcharges on 36% of the 25% of the invoices handed into the Township. Weipert has never reviewed, nor investigated the entire 1800 or so invoices that were turned in. And if you would have read correctly...the poll I spoke of was hypothetical, where the simple question was; if only a portion of the people were polled and a majority of them were to disagree, would decisions be made to represent that majority? And would that then be seen as fair? This was to indicate, that when you want to claim that a percentage is the "majority" of something or accurately indication of a statistic...it needs to be the percentage of the whole, not a percentage of a percentage!!

Yes, according to the Weipert report, Nightingale's over charged on 36% of the invoiced checked. The number may change if all invoices were looked over.
But, in my opinion, because of discrepancies with regard to the quote and what oil dry is used for. I can say 10%, maybe even less of all bills will have "Misc." charges on them. Undisputed, undisputable, deliberate, wrongful, unlawful billing. How many citizens is it OK to fleece Val? Isn’t ONE unlawful “Misc.” charge to a citizen who counts on Shelby Township to call a towing company to an accident scene too many?
How many car jacking’s are allowed before the carjacker is guilty?
How many auto thefts are allowable before the thief is guilty of theft?
How many unallowable and unexplained charges are you allowing for before Nightingale’s will be termed unscrupulous?
If Nightingale’s can’t abide by a signed contract with the township, should you trust them to keep their word when you buy their gas? Get your car fixed? We are only citizens, I counted on that contract with the towing provider to protect me from improper billing and unscrupulous practices. It did, once a sign of unscrupulous behavior was spotted the township moved to protect its citizens and cancelled the contract. This is how the court of law will see it, or at least how I would see it on a jury.
Just one wrong overbilling without immediate retribution to the victim and instead blaming the people who caught you is all it takes for me.

Guilty!!

Well, Matt...what is really important to me is the average citizens of this community, regardless of their tax bracket. And I have not seen very many questions for the candidates, other that what their platform is. I agree that courts are interesting, but evening the playing field is another subject all together. As for the Nightingales and if there has been a choice about financing a political campaign over filing a lawsuit, I have no information on either subject, so I cannot formulate an educated opinion at this juncture. The reason behind my questions was two-fold, one to see if you would provide complete and totally honest answers...therefore providing some credibility to things you say. And secondly, to see if you were willing to be as transparent as the current Board claims they are. As I see it, your answers were not complete, and some questions were left unanswered. Your answers did lead to one other question, if you were falsely accused of the crime in question, why was there a need for a jury?
As we all know just how even the playing field in in a court of law, we also know that a "not guilty" verdict by a jury does not always mean "innocent of the crime", there are times (more often than not) that there just wasn't enough preponderance of the evidence for the jury to come to a unanimous decision of guilt. Regardless, thank you for answering the questions you did answer. I surely know now how much weight to put on the things you say.

Mr. Smith, there is nothing improper with the signs I choose to hold up. I did not grand stand for the camera, i did not shout. Mr. Leman will see me at every public meeting I can attend holding signs.

Interesting Mr. Smith. This is the stuff I wish you could have told me during the recall effort but I don't believe Mr. Fulkerson and Mr. Stathakis are as close friends as Mr. Leman is to Nightingale's. I think a supervisor that sits alongside a towing contractor at meetings and at public events poses way more chance for corruption than Mr. Fulkerson campaigning for a politician. I once campaigned for Bush than against Bush, people campaign.... I never sat and ate dinner or went to their houses as the towing contractor does with Mr. Leman now.... this just stinks of a relationship born to fleece taxpayers.
I don’t think a Mr. Fulkerson and Mr. Stathakis relationship would fleece taxpayers. See where I’m coming from? Do you have instances where taxpayers suffered a loss?

Where's the police report. There is a police report of Mr. Fulkerson's incident, is there one of Mr. Viar's or are you making this up? I cannot believe one thing ANYONE says. I need to see the report. I filed a report when I felt harassed, Mr. Fulkerson filed a report, did these petitioners?

Tom, I know for a fact that the individuals renting in Shelby Woods North are not paying association dues. This means we are paying for their use of common elements. We are paying for damage they cause. We are paying for their garbage to get picked up.. ETC... Also, I know for a fact that the association/Bill Scalibrino paid an individuals $750 association fee that we were charged last fall.

My taxes went down as my value went down. You must have some wicked property there Mr. Delise. Mrs. Manzella and Mr. Leman think since your property taxes went down so much you will not mind paying a few more dollars in the form of raising your tax percentage.
This current board believes cut spending to the bone as property taxes drop and not put further burden on property tax payers. This is my major concern and it affects all property tax payers equally as much as myself.

Once again, call Meisner and Associates. They are attorneys practiced in dealing with situations like this. Are you incapable of doing that? If you are so obsessed with your poor decision to buy at the top of the market and feel like someone has ripped you off at least make a phone call. Shelby Township property values went down again this year and if you did any non-mainstream research you'd find the expectation of rising property values rising are as far off as 2017. Take your losses and move. If a new board is elected do you think they'll call on you first at the board meetings and then mosey on down to SWN to address your concerns??

I have been requesting documents on 2010 and 2011 numbers for over a year now. I get no response everytime I try. I asked forbills, receipts and checks showing what has been billed and what has been paid. Guess what they have showed me so far? NOTHING... Wonder what Bill S and the association are covering up....

You need to bring this issue up with a trustee, not Manzella, she has no pull. Try Mike Flynn, he hates taxes and fees.... complaining here will get you no where.... send your post via email to Mike Flynn.... if anything can be done, he will help you as if you were any other taxpayer.

Just to let people know. The management of property is not a taxpayer issue, it is a landowner/tenant issue. Private issues are not susceptible to Federal FOIA requirements, you may need to hire a lawyer.
Civil matter, as a rule, stink in my book.

Micheal glad to see it just me they do not return any information to.
Just goes to show what type of people the Supervisor and his cronnies are in with.

Mr. Delise, I don't think Michael is talking about the Township. I believe he is speaking of your association at your condo complex. I have never had a FOIA request denied or ignored by Shelby Township or any government agency. Private business is a different animal all together.

See, the above comment by Mr. Berz. Huh? Personal, attacking and it's like he's envious of us up here in Shelby and wants to see our township ruined while he watches from Utica and wrings his hand with an evil laugh.

Matt it's a taxpayer issue if the property is being rented out and the developer is not paying full taxes on the property being rented.And with that I am done with you again for a while.

Jeffery,

You have foot-in-mouth disease and
your responses are self defeating...
keep up the good work !

Bill
resident of Shelby > 45 years

and a TRUE “concerned citizen of Shelby”

I hate politicians and politics Michael. I can do more good as an advocate of those that need assistance. My comments are not self serving and demeaning. I sincerely want the best for Shelby Township... If I thought Nightingales or Leman or even Manzella were better for Shelby taxpayers I would not comment at all. They all have so much self serving baggage compared to the current board. I want PUBLIC servants, not SELF servants.

Michael,

I am a realist:

if you act like a clown ---> you are a clown
if you act like a boy ---> you are a boy
if you cry like a baby ---> you are a cry baby

etc., etc., etc.,

This is the impression that you and “your friends” leave on this website –> period

Go look at the previous posts from just about every article !
see the pattern ?

“These conversations” as you call them ; are simply attacks on someone , because they have an opposing view of yours

As I stated in an earlier post,
I only joined the patch to respond to nonsense being spewed by the Nightingale “boy” and the so called “save Shelby group”

In addition,
I do not have the time or the desire to get into a debate with you –> or any of your “followers”.

Mr. Guarnieri is doing a great job keeping you at bay.

Bill
resident of Shelby > 45 years

and a TRUE “concerned citizen of Shelby”

Sorry, I have to put a disclaimer here for Mr. Campbell. I insinuate laziness, not inability or ignorance in my "reading" comment.

Matt, I am so glad you read and that the truth resides in what you read. We all know that if the media prints it then it must be true.

As for Bill, only you can look at yourself in the mirror..... If acting like a high school student is what you strive for in life then have it. More power to you. A real man does not have to step down to name calling to get his point across.

Bill, my life does not evolve around what impressions I make on a website. My life revolves around the impressions I leave in this society. I will bet I have done more for communities in my 35 years of existance then you have in your entire life. Keep up the good work. Also, I’m glad you read my statements as attacks I would not expect anything more from an individual whose only statements in a debate are name calling. You call yourself a True concerned citizen of Shelby???? to what degree?? I do not think by you giving nicknames to Shelby residents constitutes as being a True concerned citizen of Shelby. As far as you not having time or desire to debate, by your comments I believe you just do not have the knowledge.

I love how both of you group everyone together who disagrees with you...Keep up the good work guys.

Michael?
I don't believe any media but I believe court documents, I believe reports from consultants that are more experienced and unbiased than I.

Mr. Berz you offer nothing to the discussion.

Correction: Golden 6!

Mr. Berz. I believe you speak of Cyber-Bullying since I doubt you feel I am using my superior strength, threats and intimidation to force you to do something.

You should read this Mr. Berz. I have been a victim of all forms on this publication.
http://www.olweus.org/public/cyber_bullying.page
Cyber bullying can take many forms. However, there are six forms that are the most common.*

1. Harassment: Repeatedly sending offensive, rude, and insulting messages
2. Denigration: Distributing information about another that is derogatory and untrue through posting it on a Web page, sending it to others through email or instant messaging, or posting or sending digitally altered photos of someone
3. Flaming: Online "fighting" using electronic messages with angry, vulgar language
4. Impersonation: Breaking into an email or social networking account and using that person's online identity to send or post vicious or embarrassing material to/about others.
5. Outing and Trickery: Sharing someone's secrets or embarrassing information, or tricking someone into revealing secrets or embarrassing information and forwarding it to others
6. Cyber Stalking: Repeatedly sending messages that include threats of harm or are highly intimidating, or engaging in other online activities that make a person afraid for his or her safety (depending on the content of the message, it may be illegal)

Tom,
I saw Bill Webber with his nose stuck way up Matts _s_!
Bill- Fill in the blanks!

Kermit,
It's called CYA or we'll call it "cover your butt" here on the Patch. If a "professional" consultant is hired then the board can fall back on that if there is a problem. As we have seen so many times Mr. Viiar will start bellowing "I NEVER SAID THAT!!!" This hiring of a consultant not only costs the taxpayers tons of extra money but it gives the board one more layer of their so called transparency to hide behind.
A productive township board will get up off of their butts and go out and do some of the needed investigation services on thier own then consult with the board and make an educated decision without the need for a self proclamed expert who obtains the same information that the trustee's of the board could.
The Notly report gave former Police Cheif Bob Leman high marks. We all see how much good that report did. A waste of taxpayers money!
I don't go out and hire a consultant to buy a new car. I shop around and investigate on my own and take the best deal that I can find. It's the same with the township but on a larger scale. The trustee's and the board will always have the option to hire services of a company that is bonded for the protection of the township and they will always have the option to buy products that are guaranteed.
From the view out here it looks like Supervisor Stathakis and the majority of the Trustee's feel as if they NEED to hire outside consultants for EVERYTHING these days. That is WHY there is a township board! Time for a new board!

Mr. Leman refused advice and when his contract came up for renewal he was given another year, something I would not have done. Leman took that year to look for other employment and ignore the needs of Shelby Township. Now, suddenly Mr. Leman thinks he deserves to run Shelby Township. I believe Mr. Leman’s reason for running for supervisor is to get back at the taxpayers and run the township into the ground. I believe he not only doesn’t care about Shelby Township citizens but he holds them in contempt and will cause deliberate harm to taxpayers. “Anyone but Leman” is my philosophy, you cannot let a disgruntled employee take control of the whole company.

http://www.facebook.com/AnyoneButLeman

Here is where I will voice my opinions on Robert Leman as Supervisor.

Matt,
What have you done in your life that actually put food on your table. You make yourself out to be an authority on so many subjects but what have you actually done to earn an honest living in your life?
Rumor has it that you've been milking the government for a long time HUH!
I support Bob Leman for Shelby Township Supervisor.

I hope Matt remembered to reference Roberts Rules Fish Fry etiquette and that he didn't make too big of a scene. Maybe he just held up a sign in an effort to keep decorum at the church fund raiser.
In the future if you're that darn hungry then you should just go to an all you can eat joint that will satisfy your ravenous hunger. Don't try to make a church look bad for goodness sake!

I have posted what I feel Mr. Leman has done that has harmed the majority of taxpayers, he double his budget in the first 8 years, only slowing spending when the new supervisor was elected and demanded this. Mr. Leman and his leadership has brought millions of dollars in lost lawsuits to the township and he still contends no liability for himself or the men he commanded. Mr. Leman refused to implement cost savings measures as the fire department and parks and rec department did. Mr. Leman never initiated any communication with citizens until his contract was not renewed.
I am definitely not saying Mr. Stathakis is perfect, in fact I have only had two short conversations with him on the street where I had to cut him off before he went into “politician mode” both times. I don't have to like the politician to like the results.

You mention 4 projects. Can you please tell me how each of the board’s decisions in these projects adversely effects the “majority” of taxpayers? Did the decisions cost us tax funds? How much?
I’m not interested in how one family was harmed by a towing contract because while one person loses a contract another gains it and the taxpayers are better served.
I’m not interested in 20 homeowners complaining about how an adjacent landowner uses his land. Not when the tax revenue from the land helps the other 60,000 residents.
I’m not interested in the plight of a dozen condo owners who are being screwed by their landlord, this again does not harm the other 68,000 residents and it’s really a private property issue that should be settled in court.
I’m a little pissed at the section 30 drain problem because our block grant money that could have paid for Van Dyke or sidewalks was used hear instead and this should have been a private land owner issue, not ours.
I bring this up as an example where the majority of taxpayers foot the bill to help a few with what should have been a developer issue, not ours.

OK, that’s' fine but I have seen Mr. Stathakis at parks and rec events and township events. I have never seen Mr. Leman at the fireworks (years ago), the kids day, the Christmas Tree Lighting, the Easter Egg Hunt, any relay for life or those running fund raisers, NONE... but I bet he will try to make it now.... he never cared about Shelby Township until now when he lost his job. He is only conning the taxpayers into following him today, at least that's what I see.
I honestly don't care if the leadership shows up at events. Botcher used to show up at all of them so showing up for public events does not make you a perfect leader. Because of Botcher I now question the motives of any politician showing up at township events. (Self-promotion, hand shaking, the need for admiration of the public).

Fulkerson filed a police report and complaint. No one filed a police report or complaint against Viar..... In the police view, that means it never happened, at least that is what a police officer told me once. "No complaint, no incident".
In Fact.... I think that was Stephen Stanbury who said that to me years ago when he was a lieutenant.
He will possibly the next Chief of Police for Shelby Township.... What a great leader he's going to make... NOT!!!

My "lack of leadership" would be when Mr. Stathakis does not kick out anyone who yells or approaches the podium uninvited, both huge violations of decorum in a business meeting.... you can dress like a clown, hold signs, heck, pick your nose for all I care but uninvited outburst and threats are not acceptable. Mr. Stathakis is way too lenient of the Nightingale's shenanigans, it's like he's afraid of them and the police in the board room are afraid of them or on the Nightingale payroll or something.

Mr. Smith. I filed a complaint against David Curtis, Manzella and the Nightingales after my last attendance of a board meeting, had a recording of it, the whole works. ..There was only one other complaint of harassment at a meeting filed before mine, yet more than half a dozen people contacted me saying they were also harassed outside a meeting and are afraid to attend because of the Nightingale's or Ken Underwood. It’s not biased or favoritism.... the police do not investigate without a complaint, they say if it's not important enough for a citizen to come in and file a complaint than it's not important enough to investigate.
When I filed a complaint I had to take a copy of the Michigan Laws in question because Captain Stephen Stanbury personally called me and said "I'll decide if any laws were broken and decide if a complaint is valid, not you". When made him Judge and Jury. It was like a line from "Judge Dredd".
What a misinformed, sad excuse for an officer he is.

But he DID file. If he hadn't no investigation would have been done.

5. You speak of the Clerk position…. The one hold out, Lisa Manzella, admitted she would not agree to any Clerk nominated by any of the other board members but then congratulated and welcomed Mr. Grot… this is obstructionism for self-gain… look it up, Manzella was grand Standing for political gain and only the most naïve would fall for this…. Oh, sorry Val.. not you, you know better.
6. The bottom line is property tax income has dropped by millions. The spending has been cut by millions…. The bottom line? This board has saved millions of taxpayers’ money over the long haul.
7. Your right to free speech ends where my rights begin. I have the right not to hear cursing, I have the right not to hear yelling and whining, what about my rights? Are you and the yellers the only ones with rights?

I wonder if Nick Nightingale and Robert Leman will allow me to stand up and call them crooks and inept at future board meetings if they are elected? Guess they will have no choice. I'll be there every two weeks doing so. Just like Nightingale's did.

I was attacked coming outside the last meeting I attended (there is a report) is this the rights you believe others have, what about my right to enter and leave without harassment?
The woman who showed up at a meeting a month ago to complain about the Nightingales behavior was so harassed and felt so threatened leaving the meeting she called her husband to escort her outside. It is believed the police are there to help the Nightingales intimidate citizens.
Val, if you had people yelling at you threatening you as you walked into a meeting would you ever come back. You are with the “gang” so you don’t experience this and you think it’s just dandy that they defend their right to free speech by yelling and cursing in a public forum. What about my rights not to feel threatened?

I have no idea of the attack you speak of, and there being a report about the incident does not necessarily make it true, right Matt? Yourself being "falsely accused" of a crime know that all too well I would presume. I for one have disputed the findings of the Weipert report all along, I don't feel that it was accurate, I believe that it was created out of half truths and at the personal request of the Supervisor. And again, as for Manzella's vote on the issue of the Clerk appointment, her statement as reported by you is not true as stated, and that seems to be the problem with these comments. Misrepresentation as fact what some believe is true does not make it factual or truthful, it makes it biased and suits no good purpose. And I do not know about which woman you speak of either, I know this....I have found the need to attend two meetings alone, and the only time I felt in the least "ill-at-ease" was when the last time, a gentleman seemed to be following me to see what vehicle I got into. I returned to the meeting once to determine if he was indeed following me, and I returned into the lobby a second time after stopping right outside the door to have a cigarette and let him pass by. Guess what, he followed me back in and then was on the side walk outside the building as I got into my car. So, who was he? And why was I being followed?

Val, you were lucky, you were being watched by a plain clothed officer.... Wish I could have been this lucky but the officer only seem to protect certain people in Shelby Township, such as Nightingale's and people who support them. If you speak ill of the Nightingale's the police allow you to be yelled at, threatened and intimidated. Maybe the next meeting you would be willing to walk out with me.... I would definitely feel safer.

I was lucky? How does being followed by a stranger lucky? You claim it was a plain clothes officer, another assumption? Or, do you know that a particular office was indeed given orders to follow me out of that building? You claim that if I speak ill of the Nightingales they would not protect me, so you are insinuating that the Nightingales have demanded extra police presence at these meetings? And if there was the slightest bit of truth to your claim, and he was following me to protect me, why would he not announce himself as to remove any fear on my part? Oh, wait a minute, I think I get what you are trying to say. The Supervisor demands that the extra police presence be in the building, but they only are to follow those that seemingly support the Nightingales in order to protect them. Protect them from whom? or what? This is the type of senseless comment that drives people up a wall Matt.

In Response to the above;
1) I do not believe that the Board represents ALL taxpayers equally. I believe those that are able to in some way contribute to the success of some members of the Board receive preferential treatment.
2) If the majorities are those that sit at home silent, then it is their apathy that gets no results. As a resident that watches and attends Board meetings, my opinion of the majority are those that come to let their feeling known, and the last time I checked the count was about ten opposed to the decisions of the Board to every one in agreement.
3) There is no excuse for a Board member to refuse to answer a citizen of their community. If the question requires further research, fine they are sitting with computers right in front of them with full access to the information required, use them! Yet, I was referencing a particular time that became common practice of Board members that blatantly refused to answer at all.
4) The Supervisor has neither more rights nor authority than the majority of the vote gives him. As for beginning an investigation, if he had full authority to arbitrarily do so, why did Fulkerson have to file a complaint first? In reference to the “preferred vendor”..yes the BOARD has the right to place the need for an investigation in front of the entire Board for a vote. In this case, the Supervisor arbitrarily made this decision.

5) You have misrepresented Mrs. Manzella’s statement about her position on the nominations for the position of Clerk.
6) As for the Board saving millions, have they really? Or is there some kind of creative accounting taking place to make it look like it? I know that the bill runs are available online for review, but there is nowhere to view all the information including but not limited to accounts receivable for the township.
7) And my rights to free speech never ends. You have the choice to not hear anything I have to say, but never the right to squelch what you don’t want to hear. You can walk away any time you choose, turn down the volume on your television, however you decide to not hear me(or anybody else) is up to you (as long as your choice is not to attempt to inhibit the ability for it to be said), nobody is tying you to a chair and forcing you to hear it!

And as for your “promise” to speak at every Board meeting if Nightingale or Leman are elected…I can’t wait to see it! That is exactly what every community in this nation needs, involved citizens!

The event that spurred the visit to the podiom at the meeting and the order by the Supervisor to have it investigated did NOT happen on the day of the meeting!!!!

Did it happen at all? Does it matter? Does it affect the financial stability of Shelby Township? There is a percentage of Police officers with attitudes similar to Ken Underwood that I wouldn't put past harassing or threatening citizens. "Schoolyard Bully's with Badges"

I don't believe it happened at all, at least not the way it was presented at the meeting. Matt, you consistently speak of finances, aren't you aware that sometimes it is way more than the money. This is what happens when people are demoralized by those they trust to represent them. As for the attitudes of Police Officers, I have only met a couple of them on a professional basis, and none on a personal basis. I have to say that the ones I have met were very upstanding and treated me with respect and listened intently to what I had to say, they did their job and did it well. And yes it does matter, because if a "friend" or "professional acquaintance", which ever you would use to describe Fulkerson to Stathakis, is allowed to come into a meeting and not be forced to adhere to a five minute time limit that is adamantly enforced on every other resident that approaches the podium, it shows favoritism and bias....and that is something that an elected official should ever portray.

Mr. Frangedakis? Can you name a specific incident that harmed the majority of taxpayers.
Mr. Leman doubled the police department budget in his first 8 years. Mr. Leman started the now laughable "Mounted Division of the Shelby Township Police Department" to help with crowd control. You know, because Shelby Twp. has such unruley crowds. Wasted thousands of taxpayers dollars..... I could go on for hours... I do agree there is documented self serving by one trustee and she definately needs to go.

Dennis,
Don't even bother responding to Matt. You made your statement and he can't stand it.
As for the "mounted patrol" Matt has already provided part of the horse.

TWISTED is right!
Matt could make an argument over a day being to warm and sunny(just an example Matt). Everyone needs to go ahead and write your opinions and make your comments without worrying about Matt twisting and arguing their points. It's the same twisting no matter what the subject. He should go report himself for being redundant(that means to repeat yourself over and over Matt).

HUH?
Matt were you trained as a dog or a horse? That must have cost your family a pretty penny. They should try to get some of their money back.

To Mike "Lowry", Didn't you play in a movie?
You should carry Tom's mail bag then you can see what it's like to be a "real" man.
Tom the next time you have freight delivered we'll come and help you. Mike can watch from the side like he probably does while others work. FLr

To
mike what are you talking about?
whrere do you come up with looking?
that's soooooooooooooooo funny !
don't like me ,then you move
socialist colors?
really don't care what you think.
keep hinding behind fake names because you're embarrased to be you

Mike l AKA truthful enquirer when you speak of assistance are you refering to the almost 6000 residents that sined the RECALL PETITIONS against supervisor $TAHTAKI$ & the treasurer VLIAR opps VIAR??????

Mike l AKA truthful enquirer when you speak of assistance are you refering to the almost 6000 residents that sined the RECALL PETITIONS against supervisor $TAHTAKI$ & the treasurer VLIAR opps VIAR??????

correction below Signed not sined

Matt...you asked for some info from the candidates. I provided some, and that still isn't good enough. As for how he makes a living, he depends on the hard work and long hours that he puts into a local business in Shelby Twp. The company he works for employes Shelby Township residents, and in this economy that is a definite plus. I believe he did follow the law and I believe that he did follow the contract, and until I see more than information paid for by the current Supervisor, I will continue to believe it. If there was anything unlawful about their actions, it has been months since the Board's allegations, why have there been no legal charges files against them? Nick is not my "friend", I do not socialize with him or his parents. I have frequented their business, and they have always performed services that exceeded my expectations and for a reasonable fee. If I was asked to be totally honest, there are a couple of things that have occurred in reference to the handling of losing the contract that I didn't agree with, but not because I would label them as "wrong", just my opinion that I would have done it differently. As for the actions of the Board, there are more than a couple of things that I disagree with, things that I would label as "wrong", "dishonest", "disrespectful", "unsavory", "unethical", and "unconstitutional". The things that most people find to complain about the residents is a negative effect directly linked to the actions of the Board's negative actions.

I'd much rather have an elected official who has a "real" interest in the community than someone who takes their business outside of their home community. How does a busy politician like Dick Stathakis make the time to run down to Warren to take care of his Allied Risk insurance company. I thought Dick already has a full time job. I guess it's good to have something to fall back on when you get booted out of your taxpayer paid position and have to survive in the private sector.
Before Matt repeats and twists this I will say that I live in Utica and I can't vote in Shelby. Save your breath Matt.

Matt although unfortunate for you you're right we do not share the same intelligence level. Sylvan Schools has some good adult classes you can look into if this really bothers you. I'll always think of you the same way I already do so don't worry about that. Just don't ever lose that funny smile!
It's not a matter of intelligence Matt I just enjoy calling you a name or two. Really! The proper rebuttal to me should have been the "Clown Master" because I can pull your strings. Who's getting mad now? Maybe we should call you the "Towne Crier"
You are nothing more than a broken record that continually drones out the same old song over and over and over. The Nightingales this, the Lemans that, Lisa Manzella this, and your right to that etc etc etc. BROKEN RECORD!

Nicely said Dennis!
Bob Leman didn't control the purse strings! He took matters before the board for approval of hiring, purchases etc. People should be looking at the current supervisor and his friends like Michael Flynn, Paul Filar, Paul Viar and Doug Wozniak. They are where the buck stops so to speak. Bob Leman was hired to be the Chief of Police and not an accountant. Perhaps former Chief Leman should have hired an outside consultant!

Mr. Frangadekis, we have ATV's for search and rescue that cost a whol lot less to upkeep, maintain and train.
The union will not allow a reserve unit.... why don't you ask, even Mr. Leman would tell you this....
Mr. Leman was at a country club until the current board of trustees hired an expert ACCOUNTANT as Mr. Berz had suggested. So since Mr. Berz suggested it, he must have approved hiring an outside accountant to look into the Police Department financing.
The buck does stop with the current board of trustees and they have saved millions of dollars in tax money.
Mr Leman was hired to MANAGE the police department, that meant the purse strings, handling finances... and you are correct, he stunk at that job.
Mr. Leman was hired to manage his employees and training..... the lawsuits and lack of disciplinary actions show he stunk at that job.
What exactly is Bob Leman good at.... maybe politics. I hear he joined a bunch of local charity groups like the Lions Club after he announced he was running for Supervisor, always a good move. Show you care about a community AFTER you get fired for not showing you care at all.

Matt, take my advice and don't waste your time debating with Jethro Bodine. Be thankful that he's Utica's spokesperson.

Actually, it did not say the Supervisor approved he only supported, --> "Township Supervisor Richard Stathakis said he supported the acting chief’s request for the camera as part of the department’s initiatives at the meetings." and "“I don’t question security, and if (the camera) is something the Police Department wants to do, then I am OK with it.” Also, the addition of the camera is only in response to recent disruptions and is temporary --> "Woelkers said he doesn’t envision the new camera being a permanent fixture of the boardroom, and he’s already seen results from the new security measures." I think it may be a bit overzealous to ask for permission from the residents every time our SPD want to implement security measures.

Is there much of a difference between "approved" and "supported"? Maybe there is and I will concede that the article did indeed say "supported". Either way, if the camera was indeed installed and has been in use, I feel that this is something that should have been put on the agenda and require a Board vote, just as the purchase of new radios required a motion and vote. In addition, I feel that it should have been clearly posted that the camera was there and being used. I might be wrong, but I think that any time a camera is in use as a security measure, it is required for it to be posted as such.
And just to clarify another point, it seems that Dan was quick to jump to reply to my post to point out the misuse of a word which in his opinion made a difference or that I had misrepresented some information, but Matt G. does it all the time, not by accident or simply not having the story in hand to directly quote from, but purposefully to sway the emotions and opinions of others. And I have never seen this person reply to correct Matt.
Oh well, it is what it is. My point is simply this, for a Board, more importantly a Supervisor whose entire platform revolved around the need for and promise of transparency of our elected officials at the local level, this is something that it shouldn't have taken a month to be shared. If there was an announcement about this issue that I missed that clearly informed citizens, please direct me to where it can be found. Thank You.

Wow, this is my first post because I did not realize there was a Patch until recently. I also did not know there was an equity policy about where I can post. Anyway, I had just read the article you referred to in your post and was interested to see what it had to do with the candidates. However, after reading you entire post (along with the other 100 or so posts here) I decided to help clarify what the actual article stated. In my mind, there is a big difference between Approved and Supported. Approved means the individual has control over the action and support does not. In this case, it appears the Police Chief was taking an action to help maintain security, which is his job. In addition, he stated it was a reaction to current events and was only temporary. To that end, it would be the same as increasing car patrols in an area where there was a marked increase in car thefts. Obviously, that would not require council approval. The Board Room is a public facility and as such there is no expectation of privacy. There are already cameras in there and as far as I know there is nothing posted preventing you from bringing your own (unlike a court room). BTW - I hope to be allowed to make further posts here. I will take a look at what "Matt" has to say. If I feel his comments need clarification, I let him know.

Of course there is not equity policy about where you can post, I was just pointing out how quickly my use of the wrong word was pointed out when Matt G. posts totally inaccurate information and very few people point it out. I guess I can see your point about the difference in the two words as defined, yet in this case where purchases from a budget where Mr. Stathakis is the leader of the body that does have control, the article can be seen as Mr. Stathakis' "support" was his "approval" of just one more arbitrary decision that should have come in front of the entire governing body, and of course this is my opinion. As for the story's claim that this action was in reaction to recent events, this infers that these events needed extra security as in there was some reason to believe that either a criminal offense might occur or that there was some belief that persons attending meetings may come to some harm. This is so far beyond the truth, and for anyone to use such tactics of propaganda to elicit the heightened emotions of fearfulness of others in completely unethical, also my opinion. And although the law does clearly state that such use of video cameras is permitted, what is done with the tapes makes a difference. And the law is very tricky there, since they are being used at the public meeting, does that mean that they can be released to the general public through a FOIA request? Are they going to be used to identify and track those in attendance? Things can get sticky here.

If you have enemies at the school yard you should just take off the front tire and take it inside with you like so many others do. Is your video camera mounted on the handlebars or is it hidden in the basket on the handlebars? It must be terrible to be so paranoid. You must make lots of enemies. Maybe you are more to be pitied than scorned...